Apples and oranges.
In my approach, the (hypothetical) player and GM establish that there *exists* a space to put things in, which opens up the possibility for other miracles to interact with it. Or that the power converts them into pure energy that becomes entangled with the Ghost projection at the quantum level, or dissassembles them at the atomic level and stores the pattern in the character's brain, or whatever.
The important part is that, mechanically, my version destroys/erases/removes an object, and later restores it, as two separate Qualities. Would you prefer...
The Magic Wand What Makes Things Go Away and Later Come Back 2hd
Useful (turn item into air) Extras and Flaws: Focus -1, Capacity: Mass
Useful (create item) Extras and Flaws: Focus -1, If/Then (only recreates items annihilated by wand) -1, If/Then (can only create an item once per annihilation) -1, Capacity: Mass
It's functioning mechanically the same: two instant effects. The first one was originally "annihilate item" but that seemed to be begging for a dispute about Attacks vs. Useful... even though turning something into air (normal atmospheric mix) is *much* more useful.
Really, there ought to be a third quality -- "Inventory Screen" to know instantly and precisely what is available.
Re: Permanent and Exhausted / One Use / Depleted -- I often forget Permanent's dual purpose as "permanent effect" rather than "activates every round". Minions works the same way, iirc, which is really kind of weird, when I think about it. Especially if you're using the "teleporting in from elsewhere" interpretation. Creating gold out of thin air is an instant effect, but teleporting in ninja reinforcements from your arbitrarily-distant hidden base isn't...
~me
On Fri, Oct 21, 2011 at 10:18 AM, Hotjets <Hotjets@verizon.net> wrote:
And while the Foci don't disappear, you don't get a free Permanent
because you bought the power through a Focus. The ability to store the
weapons is still a Miracle and still needs some Extra to allow it to
be maintained. This is not some instant/lasts one turn thing like a
shot from a ray gun.
Look at the write-up for Rabid Anne in the main book. She is focus-
based, and bought Duration on Life Support and Permanent for Heavy
Armor and other Miracles. She didn't get the ability to maintain these
powers free because she had foci.
Show me an example from the rules that supports your design, and I'll
be happy to reconsider.
Hotjets
On Oct 20, 10:46 pm, Daniel Kane <daniel.m.k...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Foci don't disappear just because their effects are instant -- no more than
> a gun disappears because *it* doesn't have Duration +2! Also, what's with
> Permanent *and* Exhausted on the same Quality? My head's exploding.
>
> Hotjets and I are talking about two conceptually different things (which are
> both interesting alternatives, and a good example of how different
> approaches work in WT!).
>
> The action of the Faithful Extra Dimensional Pocket is to generate and
> maintain the space. Nullification would presumably either annihilate the
> contents or cause them to spill out into normal space.
>
> The action of the Weapon Backpack of Holding is to banish/summon things
> to/from an existing space. The items in "hammerspace" still exist, and
> another power could conceivably interact with that space as well. Likewise,
> nullification wouldn't affect the items in question -- it would just prevent
> access.
>
> In hindsight, I'd probably axe the "backpack" part and just give them
> Attached (Ghost) -2. Minimum cost of 2/die either way.
>
> ~ Daniel
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, Oct 20, 2011 at 8:22 PM, Hotjets <Hotj...@verizon.net> wrote:
> > If you don't buy Duration or Permanent, your Weapon Backpack will
> > disappear the turn after you create said Backpack. You won't even have
> > time to put the weapons inside of it!
>
> > With 2hd, the capacity will be 100 lbs, total.
>
> > There was a Godlike character that could hide stuff - I forget who.
> > I'd make this a Miracle instead.
>
> > Faithful Extra Dimensional Pocket. 2hd
> > [4 points per die, for 8 points total cost]
> > This power allows the PC to create a permanent extra dimensional
> > pocket in which they can store up to 1,000 pounds of whatever they
> > want. Once created, it can be accessed as often as desired, like
> > creating a sort of invisible, intangible luggage. Time passes normally
> > there. This pocket moves with the PC, like an bag dragged along by an
> > obedient caddy.
> > U +2, Booster +1 (Mass), Permanent +4, Exhausted -3, Attached to Ghost
> > -2
>
> > If the PC has to reach in to get things and it takes an action, then
> > you can add an If/Then for and additional -1. Changing Permanent to
> > Endless also drops the cost by 1. A very picky GM might demand a extra
> > Useful quality of Invisibility Attached to the power so that no one
> > can see the Pocket, even when you look at the PC reaching into it. A
> > somewhat picky GM would let you get away with using the Subtle extra
> > to do this. I wouldn't be that picky.
>
> > Hotjets
>
> > On Oct 16, 5:20 pm, Daniel Kane <daniel.m.k...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > I'd only require a Dead Ringer effect if the "ghost" can look like
> > multiple
> > > characters, photo-realistically (i.e. looking like a person, not a
> > cartoony
> > > or pixelated bit of walking CG).
>
> > > What hoops we need to jump through for "inventory" can depend on what
> > kind
> > > of character you're talking about. An FPS character could have a simple:
>
> > > Weapon Backpack of Holding 2hd
> > > Useful (draw weapon) Extras and Flaws: Focus [Indestructible +2,
> > > Irreplaceable -2] -1, If/Then (must have previously put weapon/ammo in
> > > backpack) -1 Capacity: Mass
> > > Useful (put weapon in backpack) Extras and Flaws: Focus [Indestructible
> > +2,
> > > Irreplaceable -2] -1, Capacity: Mass
>
> > > For 8 points, you get a backpack that conveniently stores guns, knives,
> > the
> > > chainsaw, etc. and ammo in a convenient otherspace, and draw them at a
> > later
> > > time, but only guns up to 50kg. The backpack (or utility belt or
> > whatever)
> > > is indestructible and can't be conveniently removed in combat, but in the
> > > event of your capture an enemy could empty it (and no doubt conveniently
> > > store all your equipment in a locker two rooms over).
>
> > > The Ghost miracle is limited to its Range Capacity, but like Matthew I
> > > assume without further flaws the "ghost" can appear anywhere in range --
> > > probably in a "secret hideout" or "save room". 2hd and Booster +6 will
> > get
> > > you enough range to work anywhere on Earth.
>
> > > -- Daniel
>
> > > On Sat, Oct 15, 2011 at 11:24 PM, Matthew Bielinski <
>
> > > matthew.bielin...@verizon.net> wrote:
> > > > I'm gonna go ahead and give you my take on your questions, bear in mind
> > > > that
> > > > I'm not a ORE Guru or anything. Others may have different opinions.
>
> > > > First, I probably wouldn't require him to pay for dead ringer to look
> > like
> > > > a
> > > > computer character unless there were some actual advantage to that.
> > What
> > > > does he actually look like? Is he all 8-bit and pixilated?
>
> > > > As for 'computer character' equipment; if it's nothing too over the top
> > > > maybe an extra Useful on the power? That way you don't have to define
> > the
> > > > equipment he carries too closely and he can just have anything
> > appropriate
> > > > to whatever computer game he's 'playing'. I would want a more detailed
> > > > approach to Attacks and Defends qualities.
>
> > > > As for the wound boxes, if the 'ghost' can heal or be healed by another
> > > > character I'd say go ahead and differentiate the wound boxes. But to be
> > > > more
> > > > like a computer character you could just have a single group of boxes
> > and
> > > > when they're all full the ghost dies and the power has to be
> > reactivated to
> > > > 'respawn' the character.
>
> > > > As for where the 'ghost' appears I'd say it could appear anywhere
> > within
> > > > the
> > > > powers Range. You might want to consider some booster on the range
> > unless
> > > > you want to be limited to adventures in a close proximity of the
> > hospital!
>
> > > > Hope this helps!
>
> > > > - Den of Earth
>
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: cult-of-ore@googlegroups.com [mailto:
> > cult-of-ore@googlegroups.com]
> > > > On
> > > > Behalf Of Gwerny
> > > > Sent: Friday, October 14, 2011 7:47 AM
> > > > To: Cult of ORE
> > > > Subject: [ORE] Ghost question
>
> > > > HI
> > > > I'm new here and finaly playing wild talents been wanting to play for
> > > > years.
>
> > > > one of our group is playing a kid with the ghost miracle, the kid is
> > > > permenantly on lifesaving machines in a hospital. his alter ego the
> > > > ghost has extra tough, a hyperstat body to make it solid and dead
> > > > ringer so it looks like the computer game character he believes it is.
> > > > i've read the book and have been helping with character creation, his
> > > > was easy enough to stat up but a few questions arrose i could not
> > > > answer.
>
> > > > With extra tough the ghost has wound boxes, how do we deal with
> > > > incapacitating damage on a ghost, eg. does it go unconcious if all the
> > > > boxes on the head get filled with shock damage?
>
> > > > Computer game characters generaly have equipment, how would we play
> > > > this, would it be extra qualities on the ghost depending on the type
> > > > of equipment eg. guns would be attacks, body armor - defends?
>
> > > > where would the ghost appear when the miracle is switched on, would it
> > > > be next to the character each time?
>
> > > > We've started the game so if any of the above questions require points
> > > > thats something he can learn with xp.
>
> > > > Thanks.
>
> > > > --
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