I respect your decision as a GM, but please give this consideration:
The multiple action rules already penalize the character by forcing the use of the smaller pool and penalizing it by #actions-1 (assuming you don't use the alternate high powered rules where any set is an action without prior declaration or using the larger pool).
Now take into account that in a case like this your players paid for Wiggle dice in both abilities, by making them downgrade wd to d you are adding a penalty to multiple actions by making each wd 1/4 as efficient points wise and 1/10th as effective as it should be (since the odds of it rolling any given number you might normally set it to is 1 in 10).
In a combat situation the Brawl/Block master with 10wd in each degrades in effectiveness to an inability to do both simultaneously or the same level as a guy with 8wd+2d or 5+5 or 3+7. He's invested more points to represent a superior mastery of hand to hand combat (without resorting to Contingent/Reflexive defenses or giant armor) and is now penalized for it.
That's my thinking anyway, but if yours isn't broke, don't fix it.
-Matt Conlon
I haven't actually had this come up in play — my players are stingy with their wiggle dice — but my preferred solution is that wd can be downgraded to normal dice before the roll if so desired. Hard dice I'm happy to keep painfully restricted, since most of the time they're *so good* for their cost.
~DanielOn Tue, Jul 24, 2012 at 7:10 PM, Matt <moeheid@gmail.com> wrote:I think you've missed a critical point. I maintain that special dice (hard, wiggle etc) can only benefit their source action. Using your example you could take three of your wiggle dice from hyper dodge for a 3x10 and roll the remaining 2 dice from your regular Shooting dice pool. However, let's say you have a 10wd hyper dodge and 3hd+3d Shoot Guns pool.You have 5 dice after the multi action, you have the choice of 3wd+2d, 3wd+2hd, 2wd+2hd+1d. You can never get the 3hd because the penalty eats one first but, However you split them the Wiggles will aways be dodge and the Hards will always be Shoot.Normal dice, while unreliable maintain versatility, you can ascribe them to either pool as desired, just as if you had a 10d pool of dodge and 6d shoot, you'd roll 5d and look for two sets, but if you rolled 5x10 you could decide that the set was a better deal as an awesome attack and go with no set for dodge. You made the effort by penalizing the pool and using the smaller of the 2, you shouldn't also Have to make a dodge set or further penalize your attack.Going back up to the earlier mixed pool, you could further complicate it by saying since there were no normal dice in the HyperDodge the normal die can't be part of the Dodge set but in that instance you're probably rolling for 10 anyway so I'm content to let them put it where they want.
-Matt ConlonThe more I think about it, the more trivially abusable that is, though. It means a character with 5+ dice in any power, two or more of them wd, can succeed at *ANY ACTION* they have 5+ dice in normally by performing a multiple action with that power.
10wd in Hyperdodge. Need to shoot someone in the face with a 6d shooting pool? 2x10 dodge, 3x10 shoot, problem solved. It effectively gives you wiggle dice in everything. This is madness!
~DanielOn Tue, Jul 24, 2012 at 4:34 PM, Matt <moeheid@gmail.com> wrote:Wow, really? That's harsher than I thought. I'll stick with the way I've been doing it.Reasoning: If I have a character with 2 miracles, say leap and blast, rated at 10wd then the idea is that he has unquestionable, effortless precision and power with both. But under that restriction he can't do both in a round because you can't mix special dice. Certainly a fringe case but the system breaks down long before 10wd in 2 powers. If I want to use my 6wd optic blast while I run the danger room obstacle course I can't without relying on a random set from my 6d dodge pool. Or if I have a 10d dodge a d the same 6wd attack I can't dodge and attack because I use the wd pool (smaller) but they can't be used to dodge (special dice can benefit other actions).Way too harsh for this GM.
-Matt Conlon--You have to use the smallest pool, you can't mix-and-match dice from both pools.
For example, if you're performing a multiple action with 2d + 5hd and 4d + wd, you'll roll 3d + wd *and* have to use the wd for the action with the smaller pool. You don't get to use any hard dice in that case.
~DanielOn Tue, Jul 24, 2012 at 4:11 PM, Matt <moeheid@gmail.com> wrote:Once you've determined the size of the pool you decide which dice from each pool you're going to use, the only real limits are:1) special dice (hard and wiggle) can only contribute to sets for the action type they came from2) if you use any hard dice from a power you have to use them all.These two limits intersect harshly at times. As an extreme example:Moltar has a 5hd engulfing lava blast and a 6wd tunneling power. He wants to take two actions to tunnel under a foe and blast him from below.Smallest pool is Lava Blast at 5, -1 for multiple actions, Hard dice are lost first leaving him with a 4d pool. He has to decide which dice come from where but here's the problem, his wiggle dice from Tunneling can't be used to make a set for the Blast, and if he uses even one Blast hard die he has to use them all which leaves no room in his pool to even use dice for Tunneling. This is why a mixture of normal and special dice is a better deal and allows for more diversity in actions.More as I think of it.
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